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Hi everyone.

 

I'm fairly new to archetypal astrology and I'm curious about this configuration which is going out of orb at present. Since it started around the time of the Lehemann collapse in 2008 at the start of the world wide recession, shouldn't we be seeing signs of economic recovery rather than news of a possible double-dip recession, downgrade of US credit rating, etc? Or is it a feature at the end of a configuration that the archetypal patterns are intensified to an extent ( Rick Tarnas has said, i think, that can happen at the end of cycles)?

Any comments would be appreciated!

 

 

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I think this is beacuse what is/was occasioned by this configuration is a complete restructuring of the system. I'm afraid that the economic world has almost completely bypassed this opportunity for self-examination and well-needed change and continues to pump imaginary money into non-sustainable systems. The notion of compound interest for example, a fundamental tenet of the system, is when examined from a holotropic perspective entirely bankrupt. There will be no recovery until the wounds and weak points are examined. healed and integrated.

Any transit or planetary configuration is an opportunity, not an edict. I'm affraid that the banking system has responded to this opportunity mainly through denial. Saturn comes round to square Uranus in 2021 - we'll really be feeling the effect of the recession by then, and have another opportunity for change.

Gulliver thanks - that makes sense especially if the configuration implies a need/opportunity  for structural reform rather than  a  fait accompli. Problems seem to have intensified at the end of the configuration  which I suppose could reflect the fact that necessary reforms haven't been made.

Dear Ross and all

 

Difficult present situations all over the wolrd (specially GB these days) brind the possibility to observe the different levels of the planetary cycles and the archetypal unfoldment of the Saturn Uranos Pluto T square.

Rereading "The Passion of the Western Mind" and most specially "Psyche and Cosmos" by Rick Tarnas is a great help to understand the different levels of emergency of the collective shadow.

 

These Promethean and Dionysian principles in combination are beautifully described in Blake{s The Marriage of Heaven and Hell (page 170.)

 

The Saturn Pluto controlled use of power together with the rebellious uranian energy liberate delayed reactions of persecutor-persecuted roles, breaking with tradition and authority and matches fear of change with "... radical social and policital change, destructive upheaval, massive empowerment of revolutionary and rebellious impulses .." (Pluto the appex of the T Square)

 

Holotropic breathwork reminds us that our stay in the amniotic universe (BPM I - Neptune) is over !!! 

 The delivery has started (BPMII Saturn- BPMIII Pluto - BPMIV  Uranos).

 

We are facing the dawn of  "A new heaven and new earth" ( Chapter VIII) and  sooner with Neptune in Piscis, "The awakening of Spirit and Soul" (chapter VII).

 

Of course the new pregnancy will be followed by BPMI - Neptune given birth to new cycles of consciousness.

 

Renn Butler put it very nicely announcing the World Holotropickbreathwork on June 11th.  We need to work hard for next June 12, 2012 !!!!

 

Sat Nam - norma

Hello Norma

 

Thanks for replying. You've given plenty of food for thought which I appreciate. I've read - and frequently  re-read - Cosmos and Psyche, and I intend to read Passion of the Western Mind.  I haven't read any Blake for many years since being in Jungian therapy but I suspect I might find new depths there after having had holotropic breathwork.

I'll also checkout Renn's announncement.

 

Best wishes

Ross

 

I agree that we are really just at the beginning of the process of change, as we move towards the exact Uranus-Pluto square. I think we really have only begun to see the depth of change that will eventually emerge from this. 

 

Gulliver is right on the money (pun) when he says that there has been little self-examination since 2008 - we've pretty much have only argued about how to restore the status quo. The early stages of the economic downturn (which began - or came to the surface - on a Pluto station) were a chance to change course, but the collective response was less than open and conscious.

 

I think that when we look at long processes like this, where real deep change occurs, it is important to recognize that the various "sides" of the issue (political, social, or planetary) are in a sense like magnetic poles that turn the motor shaft of a drill that digs down to the roots of our assumptions.

 

In other words, what comes out of these processes is not the transformation anyone hopes for or even foresees. Rather, it is the change we create out of the struggle among powerful energies. It's the awareness and compassion that we bring to the process that determines whether we create positive change or get dragged around as though the gods are playing with us.

Hi Armand

I agree, we're the agents of any change - it's not something we can just bank on (welcome to pun central).

Thanks for the reminder that we're moving towards the exact Uranus-Pluto square. Latest manifestation the street riots in London and elsewhere?

 

Hi,

Just taking a quick look at this. I have this structure reasonably tight in August of 2010, for instance, but don't see it in 2008. What 2008 chart are you looking at?  (I use three-degree orbs)

Cheers, Sven

 

Hi Sven,

 

The square wasn't in place in 2008, and wouldn't be counted as such unless you use wide orbs and are willing to go out of sign.

 

My reference to 2008 was Pluto's ingress into Capricorn. It was kind of like the first guest arriving for a party... or maybe the host setting up. Not the T-square itself, but the beginning of issues associated with it, via Pluto in the sign of Capricorn. 

I think, for instance, that the economic downturn that began (or is said to have begun) in 2008 put economics in the spotlight. Pluto transforms the power structures in Capricorn (he was last in the sign in the late 18th century, around the American and French revolutions), and the transformation of economics and government, or at least the need for transformation, is apparent.

The entry of Uranus into the mix creates a new dynamic. Not only are the powers-that-be shaken, they encounter rogue groups that threaten them more directly.

An article I wrote on Uranus in Aries...

 

Thanks Armand,

I guess I have been working with specific events and predictions for so long now that I forget to look at the background influences, lol.
Do you incorporate the four main asteroids into your work?
I presume you use Chiron - what about Sedna?

Cheers,
Sven
While I don't have much to add to this thread, I am thoroughly enjoying the discussion and hungry for more - in fact, I'm banking on it (couldn't resist!).

When Pluto entered Cap in 2008 the shit hit the fan. it's only just begun, aye?

Hi Kelly, 

Thanks for pulling me back here... I meant to answer Sven but... Mercury retrograde (what will I blame things on after tomorrow?)

 

Major changes always happen slowly, and I feel it's important that we get away from focusing so much on particular events. Sure, the banking collapse happened on the Pluto station in 2008, and that type of thing is often seen. But after all, the banks collapsed because of practices that had gone on for years. Pluto's entry into Capricorn started the ball rolling, and his station coincided with a major event, but reorganizing the global economy isn't an overnight project.

And of course, we have input into how it all unfolds... one of the joys of living in space-time reality is that there is enough of a delay so that we can see where we're headed and course-correct.

 

Sven, I tend to focus on the ten major bodies (Pluto still counts for me, as it does for most of us). When I am looking at a chart in real depth I will look at the four "asteroid goddesses" as indicators for various aspects of feminine energy (I have Ceres, Juno and Vesta all in conjunction to my Cancer moon). 

 

Chiron is a special case. I find it is very significant when in aspect to the outer planets - particularly Uranus. And when it has a prominent place in the chart (on an angle, as the handle of a bucket pattern), I find it tells a story. I don't find any great resonance with the Chiron cycle, and transits to and from Chiron are significant only in proportion to its prominence in the chart.

 

I've heard plenty of great interpretations of the energy of Chiron - indicator of shamanic journeys; life cycle energy that peaks at the return; etc.. But when I apply it to charts, I have mixed results. It does indicate a wound and the potential to heal. I also feel that in aspect to the outer planets it serves as a kind of "key" to accessing the energy of that planet.

 

 

Thanks for your insightful commentary, Armand. I am very interested in discussions on this group. Would love to hear recommendations for pathways into becoming an accredited astrologer. I've been avidly reading/following the stars since youth and want to get down to the nuts and bolts. I know the archetypes well but need to learn the mechanics of charts and how to put it all together. I hear Chiron will soon oppose Neptune? How do I locate Chiron in my n chart?

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